Jo Reed: From the National Endowment for the Arts, this is Art Works, I’m Josephine Reed

Karen Ann Daniels: I think it's hard when you fall in love with something in a particular way and you do want to share it with other people. And other people say, "But I don't want to love it that way." So I try to find empathy on both sides of this conversation because we love the things we love, but I also know we can grow to love other things. So what I'm hoping is that what we're going to be able to do is invite people on a journey of discovering what else they love. Expanding their sense of love around Shakespeare.

That is Karen Anne Daniels—she’s the Folger Shakespeare Library's Director of Programming and the Artistic Director of the Folger Theatre. Appointed in August 2021, Karen Ann came to the Folger at an interesting time—theaters were slowly beginning to reopen after the shutdown, a long overdue racial reckoning was roiling the theater community and the Folger itself was undertaking a massive renovation that meant any plays needed to be mounted on other stages around the city. It was a moment—and Karen Ann Daniels is meeting it. An accomplished actor, director, playwright, vocalist and musician, she came to Folger with a vision and strategy for programming that was deeply tied to community engagement and the experience to do it.  In her previous position as Director of The Public Theater’s Mobile Unit, Daniels has brought theater and the arts to community centers and spaces around New York City. While in her prior role as the associate director of The Old Globe’s arts engagement department in San Diego, she managed community partnerships, and created, piloted, and implemented many of its significant programs. I spoke with Karen Ann Daniels recently and began by asking her to explain her dual roles at the Folger: Director of Programming and Artistic Director of the Folger Theater.

Karen Ann Daniels: The Director of Programming really is about thinking with the collective of the Folger. We have a lot of things under one roof and thinking together about how we can program in such a way that feels more unified and more grounded in the mission, the vision, and the values of our institution. So thinking about, for example, thematically sometimes, what's happening in our collection, what's happening in our theatre, what's happening in our music program, our education, our institute. How are all these things speaking to each other and thinking about the audience that they're for. So at the center of all of our work, it's really engaging with audiences. And then of course, Artistic Director of the Theater, that feels a little self-explanatory.  We have a regional theatre embedded inside of all of this that does bring people in and out of this place all year long. And that's around activating what's in the core of our collection, which is our folios and the stories that are in those folios, and so those plays happen on our stage. And there, I'm just artistically thinking about the moment we're in, again, the audiences that we want to come and experience Shakespeare for the first time, and thinking about how Shakespeare influences and impacts our lives and our world today.

Jo Reed: You came to the Folger just as theatres were beginning to reopen after the pandemic. It was during a big racial reckoning that we're still undergoing and the Folger itself was undergoing a massive renovation. So these, to me, would seem like both tremendous challenges, but also big opportunities. So how did you grapple with all of this, and how does coming in in the midst of all this tumult inform your vision?

Karen Ann Daniels: Yeah, I think there's a real interesting connection. The fates aligned this a little bit. That's sort of my perspective, I like to think everything's moving my way. But thinking about how this is an institution that did press pause on its normal and regular operation right as the pandemic hit. All the things that happened, happened during the pandemic. But the core idea of this renovation really was to open up the Folger to more people, and the conclusion we've all come to has been that we're going to start where we are. Start with the neighborhood, start with the communities of DC that maybe we have never engaged in a sort of an intentional way before, or maybe not consistently. So I think the pandemic presented a unique opportunity for the Folger to think literally outside of its box, and to think about how we could go to where people are, instead of asking people to come to us. And I think that's the adventure, that's kind of the world that I come out of anyways, so for me, it was more just sort of leaning in to the things that I've done before, the things I believe about reaching audiences that are new to us, and engaging with people in meaningful ways. And I think it always begins with going and introducing yourself, go to their house before you invite them to yours.

Jo Reed: I'm so glad you brought this up, because you came to the Folger from New York City's Public Theatre, where you directed the Mobile Unit, which brings theater all around the city. Which is daunting, but also different from this charge of wanting to invite people into the Folger. But at the same time, I'm sure the philosophies you used in New York, you can bring to the Folger.

Karen Ann Daniels: Yes, absolutely. I think the work that we did with the Mobile Unit, going to all these different boroughs, I mean, if you've been to New York, every one of them is different. You move a couple of blocks, and it's a very different community of people that are there and so how do I take this model of work and adapt it to the cities and the communities that are DC, which are very different as well. So it's about getting to know all the different wards of DC, understanding some of the sort of historic challenges here. But also, the work that I did at the Mobile Unit, also the work I did in San Diego, has taught me that it's absolutely possible and in fact, people really appreciate when you do make the effort to go to where they are.

Jo Reed: Let's discuss some of the programs you've implemented already and let's begin with the absolutely stunning Midsummer Night's Dream at the Building Museum, starring Jacob Ming Trent, who He's just amazing.

Karen Ann Daniels: Yes, he is. He really is. Yeah, that was a tremendous opportunity for partnership, number one. We built a theater inside of the National Building Museum's atrium, and that’s this great hall with lots of windows at the top, and that was a challenge. But also, we were able to activate a book from our collection.  We worked with the National Building Museum, and they blew it up into an oversized book you could walk through and experience called “A Knavish Lad.” So that was cool, and then we programmed the heck out of it, frankly. We did a show, but we also held classes that took aspects, took ideas and thematic things, and just invited people all summer long to take part in it. We also invited other people to come and perform in the space when it wasn't being used during the day or on our nights off. We brought out the Frontera Project from Tijuana, and they came and performed on that stage, and that was in conjunction with another exhibition that the National Building Museum already had called The Wall. So that was a neat opportunity too, to just see who else, what other artists, what other conversations we could be part of that felt relevant and urgent, and also just artists that we could, you know, say, "Hey, come hang out with the Folger for a little bit."

Jo Reed: You've already implemented at least two new programs  at the Folger, and I'd would like to hear about them. Let’s start with The Reading Room Festival.  

Karen Ann Daniels: The Reading Room Festival is an opportunity to invite artists to come in, artists in particular that are thinking about Shakespeare and inspired by Shakespeare, that want to have conversations about Shakespeare and who are iterating, really, off of him. So I want to give them an opportunity to work through, and what better place than the Folger, where we have so much here in our collection, in our actual Reading Room to really inform and activate their imaginations. And also to invite audiences into the process of making theater. I think it's really important to bring people in much sooner than just the performance. I think when we think about the creativity, the intellect, the imagination, the scholarship that actually goes in to making a play and telling a story, that's part of why we think Shakespeare is so fascinating. And we have our own bards out here in the world today still doing that work to tell our stories. One of the reasons why I was really excited to think about this festival, so many people approach all the time, "Hey, I'm writing this story about Jessica from Merchant of Venice," or "Hey, I've got this one-person show that talks about how Shakespeare changed my life." And I think that Shakespeare ultimately demonstrates for us the importance of telling our stories. Hamlet tells Horatio to "Tell my story," and I think that that's one of the ways that we create relevance and connection to our contemporary audiences today.

Jo Reed: The other program that you created is Works in Progress. 

Karen Ann Daniels: Yeah, Works in Progress kind of also builds a little bit off of the Reading Room Festival. It invites community members to be the artist, so to not just be the receiver of the art, but to actually be the makers themselves. We take three aspects of what Shakespeare did. We take poetry, we take music, and we take playwriting and invite folks to choose a track or to mix and match. And to dig in to think about telling their stories using and understanding some of the principles that Shakespeare actually utilized when writing his plays and his sonnets and his songs.

Jo Reed: In San Diego, you were the Associate Director of the Old Globe's Arts Engagement Department, which created many programs while you were there, which had to be very gratifying since that's your hometown. Can you describe a memorable project that you were involved with during your time there?

Karen Ann Daniels: Oh my gosh, just one? So many, I mean, I really thank the communities in San Diego for entrusting their stories, their passions to us in the Arts Engagement Department, because I really feel like that's what taught me. You know, that's where my education really comes from in this work. We did a lot of things. We worked in corrections. We piloted some programs there that I'm very proud of that have been running almost continuously since then--actually pandemic included, they figured out a way to continue. We also created Colab. Colab-- I think of that one as my personal baby. That was my heart because you know, I am from San Diego and San Diego is a very, very diverse place and it has some of the largest immigrant communities. So being able to get to know people from different cultural histories and backgrounds, I mean, that's how I grew up there, and so inviting them in to tell their own stories and create the stories that they want, it was just a privilege to come in and say, "Hey, I've got sound. I got lights. I've got people who know how to write plays." "I've got all sorts of access to these resources, what do you want to do?" And that was sort of at the heart of Colab, which is just to help support and enhance the storytelling that other communities wanted to create. So that to me is maybe one of the most tremendous things that we can do in any cultural institution, which is we can find our value, I think, in helping other people activate the things that are important to them. By that we're saying, "Use our resources, use what we have, our tools, our expertise, so that we can help uplift you," and I think that comes back to institutions tenfold when we do that from an authentic place.

Jo Reed: Growing up, where were the arts in your life? Did you go to the theater? Did you put on plays or musicals in your living room? How did the arts function for you?

Karen Ann Daniels: Yeah, the answer is yes. All of the above and then maybe a few more. I mean, I think I always kind of woke up singing one day. Music was the entry point. Played the piano, sang, probably flopped around the living room, calling it dance a lot. Coordinated shows with neighbor friends. I actually never really did any theater proper until I got to-- not high school, but to college. So I took a drama class, I did those things in high school because I went to a performing arts high school, but I was a vocal music major there. And it wasn't until I got to college that I did my very first official show and... I think I always had the bug, but the bug caught me there. I grew up in a family that, you know, my parents, if they saw a show, they'd drive us to Los Angeles so we could go see it. I saw Robert Guillaume do Phantom of the Opera twice. I was lucky to see him do that. Those moments in particular for me as a Black woman, as a child of a Jamaican immigrant as well, it was really important to see people like me and my parents made efforts to do that. So that I kind of have a vision of what the world is that might be… not typical. They also tried to show me what was possible. I went to the opera every season from sixth grade until, I think 12th grade, when I probably stopped going just because I was too busy. So yeah, that's kind of how I grew up.

Jo Reed: What about Shakespeare? When did he become central to your life, do you have a Shakespeare origin story?

Karen Ann Daniels: I think I have multiple origin stories, and that's to say that, of course, we learn about Shakespeare in school, and I had a really great English teacher in 10th grade who really dug into poetry a lot and encouraged us to write our own. So I think my first real deep engagement with him was through poetry and as a songwriter myself, that's one of the things that first appealed to me about Shakespeare. And then I think during the 90s, there was two things that were happening. There's tons of Shakespeare in cartoons. So let me just flag that. I was a huge cartoon kid. I've told this to people, "Go look up Duck Tales and I think it's season one and the episode is called Much Ado About McDuck." And that is where I first heard the Seven Ages of Man and the All the World's a Stage Speech, and I remember that particularly well. It stuck with me because it resonated clearly with me, I think, as an artist and then I think from there, it was really the films, the Kenneth Branagh films, that kind of went from one to the other to the other. And I was a huge film kid, so I actually thought I was going to be a filmmaker and not a theater artist. So I ended up being really obsessed with those stories on film.

Jo Reed: I wonder for you, Karen Anne, when did the emphasis change for you from performing to directing and writing, which, of course, I know you still do. But taking that meta look at theater.

Karen Ann Daniels: I would say I think it was always there. Like I said, I thought I was going to go into film, and I wanted to go into film as a director. So I was very focused at a young age on directing and visually thinking. But then the performer met the director and they got married. And, you know, the performer, she took over for a little while because, frankly, I think I saw it as a young person's game and if I was going to do it, I needed to do it while I was young. And then I took a break for a little while and went out into the world and did other things and learned other things that mattered, did some teaching, worked with students. The things that I did taught me about the skills that I had developed through being a theater artist, that made me more adaptable in the world. And to appreciate that all cultures, all communities create art in some capacity and that marching in as sort of the experts of it all is sort of like telling somebody you're not a human being until you've come to the theater. So taking that away, and just meeting people where they are is a big piece of the lessons that I learned over the years.

Jo Reed: We've begun the new season at the Folger and you began with “The Winter's Tale” and it also actually took place in the Folger. I mean the building is still undergoing renovations, but it gave us a real idea of what it was going to be like, it was very exciting to be back. So why “The Winter's Tale”, not just to open the season, but also to open the building, especially as you want to expand the Folger's local footprint? How does that speak to that bigger vision?

Karen Ann Daniels: I think it was a little on the nose in some ways, thinking a lot about the transformation of this institution. And at the heart of any kind of transformation, particularly in cultural institutions, it's not just a physical one, right? It can't be just a physical transformation. It's somewhat of an ideological one. It's a metaphysical one. It's a spiritual one. The whole culture of this place has to shift in order to, I think, meet the objectives of this renovation, and that is to make this a more welcoming place, a more accessible place in all of the ways. And to think about the people who have yet to come, right? And I think that “The Winter's Tale” was, in a weird way, a story that we could tell our story through. I think that's kind of my short answer.

Jo Reed: Why don't you tell us what else you have in store for us at the Folger, where you're really opening it up in a lot of ways. So share what you're doing.

Karen Ann Daniels: Yeah, I would love to. So I mean, obviously, we're going to continue with the programming of our theater. We'll continue with a lot of our music and our poetry programs. We've added some virtual things during this time, our book club, which has people from all over the planet attending it, which is actually pretty phenomenal, even though we're out of that sort of pandemic moment. We see a couple hundred folks joining us online every month, so that's really been fantastic. In this last spring, we piloted a tour called Searching for Shakespeare. So that's one of the other things that's new for us and I sort of adapted that model from the Old Globe and from the public theater, and we went to all the different wards, partnered with DCPL. 

Jo Reed: That’s the DC Public Library

Karen Ann Daniels: Yes. So I'm hoping that we continue to do that kind of work where we're going to people, where we're cultivating new stories that are wrangling with Shakespeare, iterating off of him, engaged with him, and going to where people are. So I'm hoping that's something that we will continue to do over time, as well as to continue to bring other elements of this place, not just the theater, but thinking about our collection and how our collection shows up in other places. The other kinds of programming, I'm hoping to just invite people to come to the Folger. To take some of that DNA, particularly of the work I did at the Old Globe, of just hosting events here that involve our community and the cultures and the different perspectives people have. Inviting them to come and hang out and get to know all of the aspects of the Folger, and we will do that through workshops and classes and concerts on the lawn, as well as being able to just come and engage deeply through tours and docents and things with our Shakespeare collection. And then also doing touring, hopefully down the line, touring exhibitions, but bringing people into different shows that focus on different ideas. That's kind of the big thing. It doesn't sound like, you know what I'm saying out loud, I'm like, "Oh, it doesn't sound that radical." But it is radical in the sense that it's really thinking about who's yet to come and going out and talking to people and constantly talking to people and getting to know, how they want to engage. How can it be mutually beneficial, and just making sure people know they're welcome, and that Folger's another cultural home for them here in DC.

Jo Reed: I'm so curious because you've worked at theaters in San Diego, in New York, and in Washington, DC, and I'm wondering how the local communities in each city kind of influence the work that's produced.

Karen Ann Daniels: Oh, always. I'm always thinking about who's here, you know, looking even just down to the demographics and the census and understanding the shape of a community and what are the sort of political structures that are embedded in each of these places. So thinking about schools, thinking about the parents and the teachers that are there. I think, depending on where you are, you're looking at even some of the religious structures and how that impacts the way a community behaves. We used to go to a Catholic church with our tour in San Diego every year in the Chaldean community there. And it was phenomenal and I remember sometimes you think, "Should this cultural institution go to a Catholic church?" But I tell you what, people showed up. It was a space that was important in that community, and I think that's part of the chemistry of this work is being willing to go kind of anywhere and get to know people and to build something that feels valuable to them and to us.

Jo Reed: I wonder what you think are some of the biggest challenges facing theater today, in general, and specifically with the Folger?

Karen Ann Daniels: Ooh, that's a big question. I think obviously the return of audience is a challenge still, and I think it will be. I think COVID still presents a lot of challenges for theaters. We're still coming back in many ways and actually still seeing, I think, the ripple effects of the pandemic on us. And depending on where you are geographically and the economic situation, of your city, I was talking to somebody in Alabama the other day, and they were saying how we're a destination town and nobody's coming here right now, right? We had to change our model. We have to figure out how we work, and I think that's what's happening all over the place. I also think that theater in some respects has been a bit calcified and so we've ignored the changing demographics. We've ignored the sort of generations of people. We've resisted, I think, welcoming different cultural perspectives, identity perspectives and now we're trying to do it all kind of at once. And I think our current audiences are kind of shaking their heads a little bit about like, "Wait, what's happening?" And really, it's just that there's been a gap. There's been a generational gap for a really long time, and the pandemic really put a-- not just put a spotlight on it, but it kind of like dug a hole for us to fall into. So I'll be really interested to see, I do think this work of getting to know your communities and engaging with people is a piece of the solution. Being willing to sort of break free from the confines of our spaces, and I think trust the relationship building process will find its way back to us, but it will change us and I think that's sometimes the fear is, "Will it change too much? Will I no longer be welcome here? Will I be seen here?" And I think as long as we're all kind of in it together, I don't think that's actually a realistic fear. But I do think we have to be able to talk about it.

Jo Reed: Do you think it's a particularly challenging proposition for the Folger Shakespeare theater, to deal with? because of the expectations around Shakespeare. Of course, we see how completely wonderful Shakespeare can be as it moves through cultures and through generations. The Public Theater in New York reopening  in Central Park after the pandemic with the Merry Wives set in Washington Heights in Ghanian and Nigerian communities….. I mean, my God, that was great theater; it was great Shakespeare. It was visionary work. And it was unexpected—which can be an issue for some. So I  wonder if… Because of the way Shakespeare is positioned in our culture, whether the hill you have is perhaps a little bit steeper, though completely wonderful to climb.

Karen Ann Daniels: Yeah. I mean, well, uh-huh. Yeah. I think it's hard when you fall in love with something in a particular way and you do want to share it with other people. And other people say, "But I don't want to love it that way." So I try to find empathy on both sides of this conversation because we love the things we love, but I also know we can grow to love other things. So what I'm hoping is that what we're going to be able to do is invite people on a journey of discovering what else they love. Expanding their sense of love around Shakespeare. Being honest, I think about the history of Shakespeare as a complex, complex, guy and I don't think he started that way. I think we used him that way and I think we have to take the time and the effort to continue to understand where he can be an obstacle, and where he can be an agent of change and really just expanding that love, frankly.

Jo Reed: You probably already answered this, but just to sum up, what are you most excited about as you look at the season ahead of you?

Karen Ann Daniels: I mean, I'm really excited about the festival. Frankly, the Reading Room Festival is one of my favorite things. I mean, even just kind of how you talked about Merry Wives in the Park, and that beautiful production that really adapted it into a specific lens, but we still felt like it was Shakespeare, and we still had a really great time. And it took us out of ourselves for that time period in a way that still invited us to engage with new ideas and new perspectives and new cultural frameworks. So that's why I love the Reading Room Festival. I think it invites that, it invites the deeper scholarship that over time, that's what I'm hoping to do. To get these scholars who are looking into that early modern record, who are thinking about who's not represented there, who's invisiblized. But also what are some really cool ways we make Shakespeare relevant to who we are right now, or how can it be a lens on the challenges that we're facing? And so I think the Reading Room Festival is a really fun way to just start putting those ideas out there and giving artists support to create those stories and to create work that all of us can still find ourselves in, but that might illuminate other perspectives.

Jo Reed: I think that is a great place to leave it, Karen Anne. Thank you. I, for one, cannot wait to see what else you're going to be doing because I'm loving what you're doing so far.

Karen Ann Daniels: Thank you. Thank you very much. Thanks for the time. Appreciate it. I love this place. We have so much cool things that we can do.

Jo Reed:  That was Karen Ann Daniels—she is the Folger Shakespeare Library’s Director of Programming and Artistic Director of Folger Theatre— it’s second Read Room Festival runs from January 25-28,  you can get more information about it and   keep up with all the events at the Folger at folger.edu…we’ll have a link in our show notes.

You’ve been listening to Art Works produced at the National Endowment for the Arts. Follow us wherever you get your podcasts and leave us a rating on Apple. It helps other people who love the arts to find us. I’m Josephine Reed—thanks for listening.