Music Credits:  “Hold But Let Go” from the CD Asleep on the Floodplain by Six Organs of Admittance, used courtesy of Drag City. “Mirror Monster” from the CD La Isla Bonita by Deerhoof, used courtesy of Polyvinyl Records Jo Reed: That was Vicente Gutierrez. He's the founder and editor of Highway. And this is Art Works—the weekly podcast produced at the National Endowment for the Arts. I’m Josephine Reed. It’s another installment of Dual Lives. Dual Lives is where we celebrate the work and commitment of successful and accomplished artists who still have to work day-jobs to make ends meet.  Let’s say you were a young guy who lived in Europe and Asia, writing about music for print and online publications. And let’s say the more you became immersed in a life in music, the more curious you became about the various people and ideas involved in creating music culture. But at the same time, this curiosity was limited by the restrictions of most music publications with their emphasis on stars and genres. So what’s a guy to do? Well, Vicente Gutierrez took his savings and returned to the states where he turned down writing jobs and instead worked at an organic market in order to keep his brain clear and focused on creating a magazine he would want to read and write for. The result is Highway, a print publication whose take on music of all types is smart and unexpected. If you’re interested in the latest Twitter feud of superstars, Vicente will be the first to tell you Highway is not for you. But if you’re interested in a wide range of topics in and around music, such as modern Japanese music, Yugoslavian post-punk, sound ecology, or music photography presented in an artistically-designed pocket-sized package, then you might want to give Highway a try. Here's Vicente Gutierrez with more about Highway. Vicente Gutierrez: Highway is a publication that comes out twice a year and is about music culture that's really trying to focus on the craft of music-- not only the way musicians write and record music, but about the way that we write about music, the way that we photograph music, the way that we remember music. And sometimes objects. You know, there's also a lot of curious objects in music culture. Jo Reed: Such as? Vicente Gutierrez: Such as, I mean our first issue focused on a sound box that is installed outside a sound gallery in New York called Audio Visual Arts. And they have a box which anyone can walk up to and plug in their headphones. And of course, you know, everyone walks around with earbud headphones now. And our second issue, which is coming out next month-- Jo Reed: Wait, wait. Back up. Vicente Gutierrez: Oh. Jo Reed: So what happens when they plug in their headphones? What do they hear? Vicente Gutierrez: They'll play anything-- sound art or music. You know, they have exhibits with, you know, sometimes bands like Sun City Girls, and they might play some music from them. Or I think one piece of sound work that he mentioned was an artist who decided he wanted to record fountains all over Beverly Hills in Los Angeles. And I think they played that through. And so you can imagine walking down East 4th Street in New York City and seeing this strange metallic box and say, "Oh. You know, maybe I'll just plug in my headphones for a change." I mean we thought that was a cool idea and a good way to approach any kind of interruption that's in our contemporary soundscape. It offers engagement, and we thought that was an interesting object in music culture and sound culture too, to talk about. Jo Reed: Now when you talk about music culture, are you talking about any particular kind of music? Are you focused mostly on indie music, underground music, not classical music, or maybe classical music? How wide are you casting that net? Vicente Gutierrez: Sure. Yeah. I mean, we have a pretty wide net because, I mean, the way we look at music culture is that it's, you know, music is always going to entail a certain level of politics and always a certain level of vanguard aesthetics. And that's sort of the area we look at. Because we think all music really seeks to either embed or disrupt any kind of habituated behavior. So a pop song could embed and continue to embed certain, societal behaviors. And at other times it could seek to disrupt. And we've seen that throughout all genres of music. Jo Reed: Give me an example. Vicente Gutierrez: Sure. An example would be one of the greatest hip hop albums of all time, Public Enemy, It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back, which was photographed by Glen Friedman, the main subject of our first issue. A lot of the sounds people heard in that album were... to use a kind of contentious word, new. The sampling techniques they used were jarring and really kind of vanguard, I think, for a hip hop record. And that's why it, you know, maintains the reputation that it still has today. Jo Reed: How long has Highway been in the making? Vicente Gutierrez: I would say I had the idea for Highway in the summer of 2012. And I took some time to think about how I wanted to approach it, what kind of design I wanted to work with, the format, and the style of music writing too. I mean, before I really wanted to invest my time and energy into it, I wanted to make sure there was enough content out there. But I had become a little frustrated writing for a few of the other more known music publications, and I decided to really think about it. And I had some good conversations with other friends of mine in publishing. And, you know, we decided to go for it. And it took about a year and a half. Jo Reed: When did you start writing about music? Vicente Gutierrez: I would say I'd always been writing about music in, you know, small fanzines growing up. And then in university there was always a zine or two that was into, you know, politics or whatever people were studying or debating. And I always thought to, you know, write an essay or two about what was going on. I think I remember writing an essay about when the iPod came out or something. Jo Reed: And when did you start writing professionally?  Vicente Gutierrez: I would say in about 2003 or 2004, around then.  Jo Reed: What's your background? Where were you raised? Vicente Gutierrez: Yeah I was raised in the D.C. Metro area. I mean, I was born in Maryland and lived in D.C. briefly, and then my parents moved out just across the city line when I was the fourth kid born. So I grew up in Maryland. Jo Reed: Did you come from a musical family? Vicente Gutierrez: I mean, I come from a musical family. My mother and brother play guitar and I grew up playing guitar, and I remember my mother always wanted us to play classical guitar. But, you know, growing up as a teenager in the U.S., I mean, obviously skateboarding and electrified music, amplified music was way more interesting. Jo Reed: Okay. I want to go in a couple of different directions at once. But let me just take this. Who is this magazine for? Did you have an audience in mind? You must have done? Vicente Gutierrez: Yeah. Highways is for anyone who enjoys listening to music and has a curiosity into music culture and, I would say, likes good writing about music. When we talk to writers and photographers, they're sharing different kinds of account. You know, we're not necessarily talking about specific genres of music as often. And I know that sounds really open and wide open, but in effect it is. I mean, this second issue is dealing with the music writer, yet we also take time to interview two computer programmers who have been working with a particular piece of computer code called Echo Nest which was acquired by Spotify for $100 million dollars. And that’s a completely different conversation, I think, that is totally related to music, especially the way we consume and listen and find new music. I would say Echo Nest is perhaps one of the most dominant algorithms today.  Jo Reed: Okay, I want to hear an interesting factoid from Echo Nest. Vicente Gutierrez: Sure. Like a song streaming has a 50 percent chance of being skipped before it finishes, so half of people don't even listen to a whole song anymore. That's 30 percent at 5 seconds. People skip songs in the first five seconds. And that's data from Echo Nest. It's that one algorithm that's able to track all this music behavior on the streaming site. That's why Spotify paid $100 million dollars for it. And then they release all this, like, research findings of it. Yeah, listeners skip songs every four minutes. There's a 48.6 percent chance a song will be skipped. And for teenagers, it's over 50 percent. Because they know age demographics too. I mean, that's crazy. And so that's a music conversation that's relevant today, but in a way, is not restricted to any kind of age demographic. You know, in a way, it's for anyone who listens to music and all the millions of people who listen to Apple Music or Spotify or any kind of streaming platform. So in a way, the magazine is wide open, but it's a bit esoteric, I think. But in a way, that's what's interesting. I mean, there are peculiar episodes in music history that we like and we want to present as well. Jo Reed: Why a print publication? Why not just set up a really cool website and have everything going on there? Why did you decide on print? Vicente Gutierrez: My generation, I mean, I grew up with magazines. I mean, that's one thing. I mean, we do keep hearing every single day that "Print is dead" or you know, "Print circulation is declining, ad revenues are declining." That's true. It's still a vibrant medium. One reason we decided to do print and do it in a pocket size format was because shares and other metrics are, in a way, beginning to govern a lot of internet writing. And we just wanted to have a kind of different reading experience. You know, we love reading online. I read online every day. But the print format in a way is something you can sit down and relax with and in a way unplug from the barrage of articles and everyone's newsfeed. It's still possible to be a small publication and nimble, but in print and digital. And another reason we made it that size was I think a key component at the editorial was to be a companion. And that's why I decided to make an app for it, because everyone has their phone with them, everyone has their iPad with them, everyone's on a computer all the time. But to present the stories in a way that people could bring it with them. So everyone has their phone with them. I mean, how are you going to compete for attention when everyone has their phone? So we decided to somehow get our content and our stories in the phone, and then to go back to the pocket-sized format, it's shareable. You know, we like that it can be passed around. It can be put in your pocket. Jo Reed: Literally. Vicente Gutierrez: It can be brought anywhere, and whip it out on a table. And it's even not that intrusive on a table.  Jo Reed: First of all, the size is fantastic. I'm really trying to figure out aesthetically why this size is so appealing to me, but it is. It really can fit in the palm of my hand. It is so rich in images. That's unusual, I think. Tell me about that and tell me about your thinking about making it not just rich in text, but so rich with visuals. Vicente Gutierrez: That's right. I mean, from the beginning, I wanted a magazine that would be strikingly visual. When you place Highway next to other publications, it stands out on its own. Not only through the size but also through the black and white textual introductions of stories. And then with pictures, I mean, we really wanted to make an effort, really wanted to make a strong effort to really publish unpublished photography. That's a challenge for the magazine. It's a challenge for all publications. But you know, through my years of traveling and friendships throughout the music world or, you know, music culture, yeah, I've come to be friends with a lot of people involved with music, whether they be writers or photographers or documentarians. And it's always surprising to think how much ends up on the cutting room floor. And it's not to say that all outtakes are great all of a sudden. But, you know, we were able to discuss with a friend of ours, Joe Dilworth, who's a, you know, remarkable touring drummer, but also a great music photographer. And we're able to have great conversations and publish his photography. But, you know, we really wanted to make sure we had a nice paper stock to print his film photos. So we went with that format because we thought it would be easy to hold up close to you, and you could really kind of zoom in in a way on the images. I mean, another advantage of the size is that it doesn't necessarily get damaged or wrinkled or folded like other magazines do. And it's printed on somewhat heavier paper stock, so it's a little durable. Jo Reed: It is very beautiful. And it costs money to reproduce photos well. Did you crowdsource this? Where did the money come from? Vicente Gutierrez: I mean, the money came from personal savings. I had been working in publishing for a few years in Asia and I had the idea for the magazine and just had a good conversation with my boss at the time and said, "I think I want to go out on my own and start a publication." And we had produced a few print publications in-house. So, after a few conversations with him and a few budgetary conversations, the decision was made. Yeah, it took some investment, but all in all, it's been a great project so far. Jo Reed: Do you think you might crowdsource it on Kickstarter? Vicente Gutierrez: Yeah, that was definitely an option I thought about, crowdsourcing it. But we just wanted to try to keep it as independent as possible, and that's what I wanted to do. Jo Reed: Do you still write for other publications? Vicente Gutierrez: When I started working on Highway I took a few months off and really just focused on the editorial and the writing and the research and really making sure there was, you know, stories that I wanted to invest time in. The other thing I... I didn't really want to write for any other publications. At the time, I wanted to take a break and in a way just focus my writing and research on getting this publication off the ground. You know, working in digital and print publishing today, few of us have a lot of free time to pursue our personal projects. And so that's basically how Highway was able to be kept independent. Jo Reed: Clearly, you're not supporting yourself through the magazine. How do you support yourself? Vicente Gutierrez: You know, I found myself at this market a few days a week anyway, shopping and decided to help out there in the evenings. And that's really proven well for my work. In the mornings, I'm really handling Highway and then in the evenings, I'm helping out at a market and paying the bills and not necessarily stressing myself out. Jo Reed: And what do you do there? Vicente Gutierrez: It's a kind of strange place, because everyone is able to take on different things, everyone has different backgrounds. I mean, I worked in the evenings as an auditor with the deliveries. I've done everything from help cashier or, you know, I've been involved at different levels throughout the market. It's kind of a, you know, unique place but, you know, working there, in a way, is a carefree space for me because, you know, I'm able to, in a sense... I mean it sounds strange, but I can go to work and relax, because I think some of the work that I do with Highway for me, personally, is... You know, I'm very concentrated on it. I mean it does get a bit intense, and it's nice to be around people after that.  Jo Reed: Do your coworkers know about Highway?  Vicente Gutierrez: Yeah, definitely. I mean actually one or two have helped me. I mean, it's something I talk about, definitely. It's associated with me.  Jo Reed: How many hours a week do you work there? Do you get insurance? Vicente Gutierrez: Yeah, yeah. We do have a wide range of insurance. There are three to four days a week, so I would say that's 25-30 hours. And I would say it's another 30-40 hours on the magazine. <laughs> Jo Reed: And you do have a social life? Vicente Gutierrez: I do, I do. I mean, I do DJ occasionally. I grew up here, I have a lot of friends that, you know, it's always good to get together. But they know what I'm going through right now. They know that I'm focusing a lot of my energy on this. But every time we wrap up an issue, I'm definitely texting everybody like, "I'm finally free! Let's go out!" <laughs> Jo Reed: How do you distribute Highway? Vicente Gutierrez: Well, the first issue, we had them all delivered to our home office. And I basically sent out the promotional copies that I needed to and then sold a few hundred through the website. And for the second issue, we're really trying to expand the reach of the magazine. So I’m in talks with some distributors this week about getting some distribution in Europe and the U.S. Yeah. We'll see how that goes. Jo Reed: How often do you publish? Vicente Gutierrez: Highway is biannual. It's twice a year. Jo Reed: And tell me the considerations that went into that. Vicente Gutierrez: Part of the magazine is slowing down and taking time to digest some interesting music articles. When starting a new magazine, we just didn't want to compete with-- in terms of psyche and labor-- what it takes to kind of have an online music publication. I mean, a lot of those publications emphasize the latest. And that's kind of the nature of online publishing. But what we wanted to do was sidestep that. And that's why we don't focus on the latest band. And that's why I had to, in a way, put a little disclaimer on our website which is that there's a new curiosity into subjects like this in music culture. And this is for readers and listeners who are interested in that. If you're interested in the latest band or what so and so said to each other in some Twitter feud, you're not going to find it in the publication. There's plenty of vibrant publications where you can find that information. Jo Reed: But you do have an emphasis on international music. You're not just focused on the United States. It's amazing how rich and varied the content of the first issue is. Vicente Gutierrez: Well, thank you. Yeah. I mean, Hildegard Westerkamp is a Canadian sound ecologist. And when I was in Japan, I was able to see Oren Ambarchi live a few times playing with a remarkable... I guess you could say psychedelic, avant garde musician called Keiji Haino. And another friend of mine offered to write a story about Yugoslavian punk and new wave. Joe Dilworth is a Londoner. The voice study series is also from London. But we also, you know, definitely want to have some content from the U.S. So KCHUNG Radio is a great pirate radio collective, or I should say community radio station in Los Angeles, which has been featured in The New York Times as well. Yeah, I mean, it's an international-themed magazine. Jo Reed: And the cover is very unusual. Vicente Gutierrez: That's right. I mean, we did want to emphasize images, and we decided to have them wrap around the binding. So, you know, Highway looks kind of unique on your bookshelf, whether you have it horizontally or vertically. And we didn't want to have too much of an emphasis of one musician on the cover. Like, I think it's safe to say, every music magazine always has one person on the cover. Now we know why, because magazines with a face are more likely to sell more. But you know, I think we just had to take a step aside from convention and say, "You know what? This is what we want to do. You know, we want to put multiple images that do not necessarily emphasize one artist." I know the format's small. And in the talks with distributors already, they said, you know, a lot of stores are not going to want to sell this because it can be pocketed and stolen and unaccounted for. But, that being said, we have up to 15 stores now that I've been able to distribute the magazine to. Jo Reed: The second issue is about to be birthed. <laughs>  Tell me about what you learned from the first issue and how that helped you perhaps frame the second one. Not that there necessarily had to be any big changes, but I'm sure you learned some things and said, "Okay. I thought this would work but it didn't." Vicente Gutierrez: Sure. As you said earlier, this costs money. I mean, I brought it down from 250 pages to 230 pages. So in our second issue, there are less stories, but those stories are given more of an in-depth treatment. But that also is contingent on the main story. We really wanted to dedicate a good percentage of pages to one particular writer who I wanted to interview last year. The music writer we want to interview, his name is Mark Fisher. And he kind of plays with this quote he borrowed from another philosopher called "the slow cancellation of the future." And Mark Fisher is choosing to apply that to the music world. And we really wanted to talk to him about that and investigate and explore and give him enough room to really elaborate on that point. We also have the two computer programmers I mentioned, who are composing self-automating bots that can scour SoundCloud and download music and remix it and upload and comment on users' accounts to notify them they've been remixed. But again, that's using one of the more particular, dominant music algorithms today. We were able to commission some stories and essays and interviews for our second editorial, which in a way functioned as the magazine's op-ed pages. And the first one was on publicity, which explores how artists have presented themselves in recent years. And the second one is about spectatorship, and the spectacle today in live music. We're interested in the way that fans look at artists on stage and the way that artists look at the crowd. You know, there's a space where people are gazing at each other. So for this spectatorship editorial, we have a few thoughts from a great singer named Katie Alice Greer from the band Priests. Dan Deacon, who is no stranger I think to public radio. Mark Anderson, who is an organizer and activist with a long history in Washington, D.C.'s music scene. And we have a Q&A interview with Ian MacKaye from another Washington, D.C.-based record label, Dischord Records. Then we were able to get permission to reproduce an essay from 1983 written by Kim Gordon, former member of Sonic Youth, recent author of Girl in a Band, which she wrote in Artforum magazine. And I think most people aren't aware it exists, but we decided we wanted to rerun it in the spectatorship editorial, because it kind of really echoes a lot of the questions and sentiments that have come through a lot of our contributors to this section. And yeah, we thought it would be great. And so that's the object we're concerned with this issue, is this document from 30 years ago. Jo Reed: Do you pay the writers? I was assuming you don't but I could be wrong. Vicente Gutierrez: Oh, yeah. Oh, no, all the writers are paid. Jo Reed: Oh, they are? Vicente Gutierrez: Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Of course, yeah. Yeah. Definitely. That was definitely a budgetary consideration from the start.  Jo Reed: The amount of work involved is really kind of staggering. There's conceptualizing the issue, there's figuring out how to interview, there's finding the writers. How do you find these people? Do you draw on your own network of contacts from the years you spent writing for music pubs? Vicente Gutierrez: Sometimes. Yeah. Sometimes. There's a writer in our first issue who I wanted to commission for this essay about a somewhat forgotten punk new-wave film from Germany that was released in 1984 called Decoder. You know, most people are unaware of the film. And a good German friend had told me about that film, and I watched it and I said, "It's an excellent, excellent film about music and society." And yeah, I mean, I knew Dan Barrow was a great critic and writer, and I asked him if he would be interested in writing about that film. And he wrote an excellent essay. And I was able to get in touch with the producer. And I was like, "Hey--" My friend teaches film in Germany. I said, "Hey, dude, how do I get in touch with Klaus Maeck?" He was like, "Here's his email. Here's his production company. Email him. I'm sure he'll be happy that you're writing a story on his film from 30 years ago." And I wrote to him, and I was like, "Hi. Look, I'm writing an essay on Decoder with a great writer."  Jo Reed: And what did he say? Vicente Gutierrez: I mean, he was enthusiastic. He was like, "Great!" I mean, in a way, I just wanted to let him know because I wanted to ask if there were any photos. You know there's photos taken in production all the time. And we were lucky, we got like three or four photos that have never been released. So it's just this like weird movie that like everyone has forgotten about. And I was like, "Dan, we have to do this movie justice." And the essay he wrote is just like phenomenal.  Jo Reed: Is it hard getting the word out about Highway?  Vicente Gutierrez: With the internet today and distribution, I mean, I am flabbergasted at how Highway has made the rounds. It's crazy. It's absolutely insane. We're getting hits from all over the world, so I've been able to travel a lot. I have good friends in a variety of cities. But it's like, you know, I've been sending those out to all my friends, with like ten stickers in them. I'm like, "Dude. Post up like crazy." I did posters in New York and D.C. I'm doing it all again. I'm going to go to Philly, New York and Boston by myself for a weekend and just only do posters, not even see anyone. I'm bringing my bike with me. But again, guerilla-style, you know, promotion. Like I'm gonna map out the locations that are important, like record shops and live venues. Again, I'm flabbergasted that, you know, Colette-- a very selective retailer-- one of the most influential retailers in the world... You know, Kim Kardashian, Kanye West are like, "We're at Colette shopping." Over 500,000 followers on Instagram. Huge for a shop. One of them. It's not even a chain. This is one store, run by this one girl, who is a tastemaker like no other. Jo Reed: And she's selling your magazine? Vicente Gutierrez: She's selling it. She bought 20 off the spot. She was the first one. Jo Reed: How many did you print? Vicente Gutierrez: Five hundred. She's the first one, though. But she's friends of Johan Kugelberg who wrote that. So I got lucky.  Jo Reed: Wait, wait. Back up. Explain that.  Vicente Gutierrez: I lucked out because Johan Kugelberg ended up contributing to our publicity section, which was an editorial on how artists present themselves. And he's a friend of Sarah Lerfel. And I think that helped get our magazine sold there.  Jo Reed: Okay, I'm showing my ignorance here. I thought Colette was a clothing store. How does music come into this?  Vicente Gutierrez: Colette is a retail store and they have a music section where they sell records and CDs and so forth. And I guess as part of their media and outreach, they have a music podcast where they play new music that's in the store. And I think it's a good podcast. And their music buyer, Guillaume, runs it, and he always mentions his email towards the end if you want to write in. And I was like, "You know, I'm gonna email you, and be like, 'You should have a copy of my magazine. I'll send you one. Take a look at it.'" And the next day, I got a reply, not from him, from Sarah Lerfel's assistant. And she was like, "They want to stock 20 copies. Where should I send the invoice?" And I was like, "Right here. Send it right now." And then Printed Matter in New York, you know, the like epic independent artists, like, bookstore. They don't sell music magazines. They do not sell that kind of stuff. They sell art books. Artist's books. But they picked it up as an independent zine.  Jo Reed: What are your plans for Highway once Issue 2 is out? But I mean, beyond the issue. Are you thinking about becoming more of an online presence? Are you thinking about starting a podcast?  Vicente Gutierrez: You know, moving forward, I'm really trying to get, you know, a couple more writers on board. We've got some people lined up for Issue 3, which we're working on right now. And we're also going to start doing some events, which is part of the magazine's editorial as well. So our first event was putting a sound work piece by one of our interview subjects, Hildegard Westerkamp, on the exterior sounds box. And I think our next event's going to be a talk show with the photographer, Glen Friedman, who I spoke to yesterday, and he's really into the idea of coming down to D.C. And we reached out to the D.C. Punk Archive, which is under the D.C. Library, and they were into the idea too. Glen Friedman has played a part in D.C. punk history, so right now we're getting it together, and hopefully that will happen this fall. And, again, I mean, we're really interested in getting the magazine out there more and more. So, you know, trying to get distribution for Europe and, you know, major markets in North America and Asia. Like you said, it is a lot of work and, you know, we obviously want to reach as many people as possible.  Jo Reed: Let's say you had a really good budget to do a dream issue of Highway. What would it be? Vicente Gutierrez: The thing I want to do is, like, I want to do a travel issue. And the travel issue, I want to go around the world and do, like, not me, but stories from around the world. Like did you know the NASA's sound radio telescope is in Puerto Rico? And it's like this massive concrete dish that's like the size of a fricking Walmart, like, just a huge concrete dish. And that's where we communicate with aliens, or try to. That's how we send signals out to the universe. They're playing blues out of that thing. Jo Reed: Far out. Vicente Gutierrez: <laughs> Literally. It goes forever. In space, they go forever. I'm like, "Who is the-- Who the hell is NASA's like chief of like radio telescopy?" They probably send binary computer code. They probably sent the first computer program out there. Jo Reed: You seem to enjoy the challenge of publishing and editing Highway.  Vicente Gutierrez: Sure. I mean, Highway is an extension of my own publishing studio which I am, you know, starting to try. So it is the first publication we've put out. I'm also working on a different book related to music and skateboard culture. But we'll see. I mean, publishing is a business that's always in flux. And I still think it's a golden age, not only for journalism but for content, the way we're interacting with our phones and tablets. They're still pieces of plastic unless there's a great story in there.  Jo Reed: Okay, Vicente, thank you so much. I really appreciate it.  Vicente Gutierrez: Yeah, no, thank you so much for having me. Thank you. Jo Reed: And when is Issue 2 coming? Vicente Gutierrez: We're going to start pre-orders next week, and then it'll be shipping a couple of weeks after that.  Jo Reed: Okay, so by September 1st, out? Vicente Gutierrez: Oh definitely, yeah. It'll be out. Jo Reed: That's great. Thank you. Vicente Gutierrez: Great. No, thank you. That’s Vicente Gutierrez. He's the founder and editor of Highway. You can find out more about Highway at their website highwaymagazine.info. You've been listening to Art Works produced at the National Endowment for the Arts. The Art Works podcast is posted each Thursday at arts.gov.  To find out how art works in communities across the country, keep checking the Art Works blog, or follow us @NEAarts on Twitter. For the National Endowment for the Arts, I'm Josephine Reed. Thanks for listening.