(Music up) Jo Reed: That is Irish Step Dancer and 2014 National Heritage Fellow Kevin Doyle with the band Pendragon.  He's dancing a piece written especially for him, called "Kevin Doyle's Hornpipe." And this is Art Works, the weekly podcast produced by the National Endowment for the Arts.  I'm Josephine Reed. Kevin Doyle was born and raised in Rhode Island, with a tradition of step dancing that went back two generations on his mother's side.  She was a great Irish step dancer, and he was brought up in a house and a neighborhood filled with music and dance.  Kevin danced competitively from an early age, winning several competitions or feis throughout New England and the greater New York area.  He soon added tap dancing to his repertoire, performing in regional theatres and winning national competitions.  Like many traditional artists, he had to cut back on his dancing when he married and began having children.  But he always kept a hand, or a foot in it, and now he's back on the circuit, and he's never been busier, dancing with any number of groups and bands, playing percussive instruments with the band Pendragon, serving as a state and regional master artist, receiving a fellowship from the Rhode Island Council on the Arts, and now he's named a 2014 National Heritage Fellow.  We saw him dance last year, when 2013 Fellow Séamus Connelly invited Kevin to perform with him at the National Heritage Fellowship Concert. Seeing Kevin's performance made me realize that step dance is part of Irish music itself, often serving as percussion for the music.  When I spoke with Kevin Doyle a couple of weeks back, I shared that observation with him.  Kevin Doyle:  Yes, I totally agree with that because to me Irish music is dance music. And, you know, besides the beautiful songs and the airs that they play but any kind of the traditional jigs, reels, and hornpipes it’s dance music. It’s sort of like a natural reaction for people to hear the music and all of a sudden their foot starts tapping or their hands start clapping a little bit. And so when they see it danced out rhythmically with the feet as percussion it sort of completes the whole picture to them. It all totally makes sense then. Jo Reed:  Where did you learn to step dance? Kevin Doyle:  Well, I first started learning at the age of eight years old from my mother, who came from Castlerea, County Roscommon in Ireland in the 1930s. And she was a wonderful step dancer that she had learned from her mother and she brought her folk art to this country. So it was sort of like a natural thing for me after seeing my mom dance at so many occasions and parties, and it was something that I wanted to do as well as part of our community and part of our heritage. Jo Reed:  And you danced with your sister Maureen, correct? Kevin Doyle:  Yes, Maureen was six years old and she was my dance partner for 40 years and still performs with me. In fact, she’ll be coming down to Washington, D.C. with me as well to show some of the dances that we did earlier on in our career. Jo Reed:  What would happen? Would your mother teach you how to dance after school?  Was it, you know, you came home and you did dance at home? Kevin Doyle:  Yes. Yeah, we would have to do homework and then we would do a little bit of rehearsing of the steps that we had learned. And my mom would keep them fresh in our minds, so her way of doing that was every morning before we went off to school with St. Matthew’s school with our uniforms on, Maureen and I would be in front of the kitchen sink and my mom would be lilting “McLeod’s Reel” for us. Lilting was a form of mouth music that they used often times in Ireland when there was no instruments in the house or no musicians. And she would lilt “McLeod’s Reel” which is something like <lilting> and we would do the beginning steps of the reels, the sevens and the threes. And then off we’d go, she’d send us off to school. And often times she’d give me a shot of this Geritol stuff to think that maybe I would have a growth spurt on the way but the dancing worked out a lot better than that. <laughs> Jo Reed:  Was dancing something you took to immediately? And I don’t mean just in terms of talent, but I mean in terms of love. Did you love it right away? Kevin Doyle:  I did. I really loved it right away. I think it was my sense of rhythm that I just felt a natural draw to that, to the music. And I could fit my steps to the timing. A lot of dancers sometimes struggle with the timing with the musicians, and the different music that’s played. And I always had a gift of being able to accent the rhythms with my feet, so often times it was said to me that "You really dance right to the music." So I had a rhythm in me that just seemed to fit with my feet, and whatever I was listening to I could just impersonate that percussion with my feet. Jo Reed:  Now, when did you begin more formal lessons outside the home? Kevin Doyle:  Oh, that was probably at the age of nine after my mom had taught us quite a few of her steps. She wanted us to get into a more disciplined setting of dancing. And we went out to Mrs. McCorry’s School of Dance in Pawtucket, Rhode Island. She had a very nice battering form of dancing, which is a style of dancing that’s very rhythmic, close to the ground. And she had some wonderful steps that we were attracted to. We had seen her dances performing out around St. Patrick’s Day. And we went out there and that led us into the competition scene. Jo Reed:  The competitions were really important in that time, wasn’t it? I mean that was a time when you really could go out there and perform, especially as a kid. Kevin Doyle:  Yes. It was a little different from today. Today, the world, the nationals, there’s an awful of pressure and an awful lot of preparation, not that there wasn’t a lot of preparation for us, but it was something to see if you could go to these feis’ that were up and down the northeast to Boston and Brookline and the Bronx, Yonkers, all up and down New York. It was to see how well you could do. You would compete, it would be an all-day event. And, of course, you’d have an Irish dance uniform on that they sent over from Castlerea that was made of the finest wool of Ireland and be about 90-some degrees all day long in the feis. So you’d be over there, sweating all day waiting to compete. And it was something to be able to go do that, if you were victorious in the feis it was quite an honor to have that. Jo Reed:  I know that you did an old style form of step dancing, but I want you to explain what those different styles are. There are reels, there are jigs, there are hornpipes, and enormous variations within each of those categories, but just generally, what are the differences among those three? Kevin Doyle:  Well, what’s different about each piece is the timing. The jigs are always in the six-eighth rhythm. Reels would be four-four times, which is a pretty fast four-four time. And hornpipes would be four-four but they’d be very, very-- the steps would be choreographed very much to the music. So you would hear the hornpipe stepped right along with the music and it would almost dictate what you would be dancing. Jigs being very quick and lively. And reels, of course, they were done with soft shoes and hard shoes. They’re all unique in their own way. But what my old style is about is a very old, traditional, close to the ground rhythms, where you do a lot of work very close to the ground. As with the dance masters of the old days, it wasn’t common to show the sole of your feet. You would actually get marked off in competitions for that back in Ireland. (Music up) Jo Reed:  Interesting, I think, for many people, when we think of Irish dancing, of course, we think about Riverdance and the kind of show dancing that’s done there. But as you say, what you do is quite different from that. Kevin Doyle:  Yes, it is. Michael Flatley, who I give all the credit in the world to for bringing the spotlight back on Irish step dancing and putting in on the world stage, he has really moved that dancing and the evolution of dance that incorporated Spanish dancing, flamenco dancing, tap dancing, just a loose form and a very exciting form of step dance. And he still sticks to some of the traditional roots of it but he’s taken it much more further than that.  Jo Reed:  Now, in traditional Irish step dancing, the right foot and the left foot kind of have a mirrored relationship in terms of the way they do steps, is that true? Kevin Doyle:  Yes, in the step dancing, the traditional step dancing, it was always done with the right foot and usually repeated with the left. And it’s actually a choreographed form of dance, versus the Sean-nós style of dance which was a very early form of dance Ireland, where you would never repeat the same step twice. It was pretty much what you felt to the music, what you were listening to. You’d jump up and you would just do something that fit rhythmically to the tune. And next time you got up, you'd never do the same thing twice, where step dance it was choreographed. Jo Reed:  Now, the Sean-nós style is one of the oldest forms of Irish dancing, isn’t it? Kevin Doyle:  Yes, that’s Sean-nós and it’s a very old style of dance, very popular in the Connemara area of Ireland, and actually is enjoying quite a renewal throughout Ireland and throughout the country in the world right now. It’s getting to be very popular again. That was very much part of the kitchen hooleys and the parlor rackets. And it would always be said in the old days over there and as in this country, as well, when your musicians were playing someone would say, “Come on, don’t let that good music go to waste, someone get up and do a step to it." So somebody would jump up and as long as it fit into the structure of the tune, whatever you did was fine. Jo Reed:  So it’s like jazz for Irish dancing? Kevin Doyle:  Yes, very much so. Jo Reed:  Kevin, you also are a tap dancer. How did you get involved with tap? Kevin Doyle:  Well, tap dancing became an instant desire of mine after I seen the movie “Yankee Doodle Dandy,” (Music up) which was the story of George M. Cohan. James Cagney portrayed George M. Cohan. And I saw that movie and I was so infatuated with the dancing of James Cagney and the storyline that I ran out into the kitchen and I said, "Mom," I said, "I want to learn how to do that dancing as well." And I continued with my Irish step dancing, of course, but my mom took me out to Theresa Landry’s School of Dance in Pawtucket, Rhode Island. And I started there at the age of 10 years old and continued to see her and work with her today, and she’s going to be 93 years old. And she’ll be in Washington with me as well in September. Jo Reed:  There is a relationship between tap and step dancing, isn’t there? Kevin Doyle:  Oh, absolutely. It was part of the evolution of dance. When a lot of the Irish step dancers came over to America to diversify their talent, they started in Vaudeville, all the different shows that were going to be on Broadway. Everybody had to sort of like diversify and they all became hoofers and brought tap into their repertoire. Jo Reed:  Did you find that your step dancing affected the way you tapped? And when you were tapping, did that affect the way you then subsequently step danced?  Kevin Doyle:  No, that transition was very easy for me. The transition from the rigid form of step dance into the really bent knees, loose body form, expressive form of tap dance was easy for me. And I never really had a problem going back and forth, although, I will say with some of my jig steps or some of my hard shoe reel steps I will incorporate into some tap routines that I’ve choreographed. So it’s very easy to mesh the two styles together but I didn’t have a problem keeping that line there, to keep it traditional and then keep with tap. Jo Reed:  Correct me if I’m wrong but I think with step dancing, often, if you were dancing publicly it was in a competition, whereas, with tap you were performing more than competing, is that fair? Kevin Doyle:  Yes. For the most part, I would say that with Irish step dancing there was a lot of competing.  However, there was a lot of performance as well, but the difference was with the Irish step dancing they only wanted to really see you around St. Patrick’s Day. So all of the Irish clubs, five, six, seven places a night we would go around to the different organizations and my sister and I would do the step dances, and they’d say, “Thank you very much. That was wonderful. We’ll see you next year.” So I did a lot of my entertaining with tap dance and a lot of my competitions became tap dance as well with different shows like community auditions and one of the shows in New York City was the Ted Mack “Amateur Hour” which was like an early form of “America’s Got Talent.” So I was actually very successful with that, winning two times on that show. And that was voted by America, people voted it and sent in cards and the American public chose the winners. So there was some competition to that, but you’re right, most of that was all part of school shows, performances on the Steel Pier in Atlantic City. It was pretty much a lot of performance but there was some element of competition in there. Jo Reed:  I also would imagine as you got older and had a family and a fulltime job that you kind of had to step away from step dancing and tap dancing. Kevin Doyle:  I did have to back away a little bit from that because I really couldn’t take the opportunities that were coming my way because I did have three children and a wife and a mortgage. Like many folk artists, you have to supplement your income. So it was something that I always kept my passion alive for and I would keep performing. And I would constantly be choreographing and creating steps and working with other artists. But it was tough to try to keep that balance, sometimes, when you had a fulltime job. It’s just been wonderful for me now. I’ve been retired a year, a year ago June and opportunities have been coming my way, and I actually have the time to actually explore what I’d like to do with my passion for dance. It’s been great now. Jo Reed:  Well, you also had something that was actually kind of devastating turn into an enormous opportunity. What was devastating was that the grocery store that you managed closed but you got another job that oddly enough gave you much more time to be able to dance. Kevin Doyle:  Yes, and I didn’t realize that until about ten years after I had the job. What happened was in ’95 I lost my job after 28 years with a supermarket chain, and I had done very well with them and at 45 years old I was out of work with three children and a mortgage and needed coverage. So I started driving for the Rhode Island public transit as a bus driver in the city of Providence and I did that for 17 years.  The markets, they never would allow you time off because I was responsible for perishable inventories. I had to be there for the ordering. So it was very, very difficult for me to get some time to explore festivals or to take off and do a weeklong camp anywhere. However, with RIPTA they had a situation there where I could have other drivers actually work a day for me and I could string days together and put a week worth of days together or longer if I needed to. And so I was allowed to explore a lot more opportunities, and that happened in June of ’96 which was simultaneously when Riverdance was hitting the world stage and there was a rejuvenation in Irish step dance. So I’m a very firm believer in when one door closes, another door opens. And little did I know at the time after feeling devastated that that was actually going to enable me to groom a career so when I retired I could still continue to follow my passion. Jo Reed:  I think sometimes it’s difficult to remember since it’s almost 20 years the impact that Riverdance had on Irish dancing. Kevin Doyle:  Oh, it’s been incredible and still is incredible as far as how it’s crossed over into so many different backgrounds. I’ve worked with some great dancers and some of the best have been Asian dancers. And last year in County Clare in Ireland, there was eight Japanese dancers in my class and one was a lawyer and one was a doctor and they’re just infatuated with the form of dance. And that goes right across the board with all of these sorts of nationalities how it’s rejuvenated so much interest in the dance. And at that time, I’ve got to say that Pendragon, the band who I’ve been with for 18, 19 years actually now, I had known them earlier on in my life and they said, “Everybody wants to see the step dance and would you like to come out and try step dancing with us, again?” So I did. And I’ve been with them since ’96 of June. And been dancing ever since with them. I also danced with Atwater-Donnelly band as well, a husband and wife duo. So, when people ask me "What do you think about Michael Flatley and Riverdance?" I really thank him so much for putting the spotlight back on dance and actually took me out of semiretirement. Jo Reed:  Well, let’s talk about Pendragon just for a moment. You do hard shoe dancing with them, with syncopated beats, fast music. Is that typically what you do when you’re dancing with them? Kevin Doyle:  Yes. I play percussion with them. I play hand percussion with African Djembes and Middle Eastern Doumbeks and Bodhrán, the Irish drum, then I step out in the front of the kit and I do the jigs, reels, and hornpipes, which, once again, completes the picture when you’re hearing these lively sets of jigs and reels. I step out and I let my feet do the percussion for the rest of the tune. Jo Reed:  Now, how did you become the percussionist, not with your feet but with your hands, for Pendragon? Kevin Doyle:  Well, I always played around with percussion all of my life. I loved percussion. It was sort of a natural thing. I had so much rhythm in my feet, my hands were full of it as well. And there was a drummer in Pendragon, Ron Smith, who was a wonderful drummer but had decided to move on and to go into a different direction. And Pendragon folks called me up and said, “Kevin, we think we have the right guy for the next drummer for Pendragon.” I said, "Oh, that’s great."  They said, “Yeah, he’s from Barrington, Rhode Island.” I said, "Oh, that’s coincidental, that’s where I’m from." “And his name is Kevin.” And I said, "Wait a minute," and they said, “Yeah. Yeah, buddy, you’re going to be the next percussionist.” So we looked around for a really warm sounding Djembe and some nice hand percussion drums and I just moved that rhythm from my feet up to my hands and it’s been fun ever since. (Music up) Jo Reed:  You also dance with the Atlantic Steps. Tell me about that ensemble. Kevin Doyle:  Well, that’s a group of six dancers, Brian Cunningham from Connemara, Ireland, had traveled in Ireland with his siblings, five siblings, the Cunningham family. And they had this wonderful show over there in Ireland and Brian moved to this country and he wanted to follow his dream and bring that show alive over here in the United States. And it’s like a 90-minute story of what happened to the Irish dance when it came across the Atlantic. I always think about that show as once the train leaves the station that show goes for 90 minutes and it’s nonstop dance and stories and voiceovers. It’s very exciting. Jo Reed:  Do you do any improvised dance with the Atlantic Steps?  Kevin Doyle:  Oh yeah. There’s a couple of sections in the show that’s called the “Step About” and each one of us step forward and we do 32 bars of music. You're listening to the music and you're impersonating the music with your feet, so everybody gets to change it up each time they do it and it’s never done the same. There’s no choreographing the Sean-nós steps. Even though there are routines in it, there are jigs, there’s reels, there’s hornpipes, and those are choreographed, but there’s an awful lot of improvised dancing. Jo Reed:  You also have students who you teach Irish dance to. When did you start teaching? Kevin Doyle:  I started teaching at the age of 19, maybe 20 years old. I started teaching using Theresa Landry’s studio and also using my basement as well. And I was teaching workshops and teaching different routines to people that would come to me and ask me when they see me out performing if I would give lessons. So I continue to teach in schools. Many schools today I do programs with Atwater and Donnelly. And the hunger for the Irish dance and the love of the music is just so evident when you expose these children to it that it’s one of the best parts about my passion is to share it and to share it with children. Jo Reed:  And you find that kids really respond to it. They’re not dragged there by their parents? Kevin Doyle:  Oh, no, no. It’s sort of like that dynamic style of dance that captured all the audiences in Riverdance. When you see a dance, really, right up close like that, I mean some of these children never get up close to see that, up close to see the instruments, up close to see the dance. And many times we’ll go back to school as resident artists and we’ll return the following Monday and the teachers will say, “These kids have not stopped dancing and hopping and skipping since you left last week.” And they’re really, really anxious and eager and focused to learn so we get a lot done in a day program at these schools and give them a good taste of the dance and the song and the music. And who knows, if only one person picks up a pair of dance shoes or an instrument, you know, it could maybe save their life some day. Jo Reed:  You also choreographed and you were the lead dancer in the annual A Christmas Celtic Sojourn. Now, tell me about that. How did that come about? Kevin Doyle:  Well, that was a great opportunity that Brian O’Donovan from WGBH. Brian called me up and gave me the opportunity, which I thoroughly enjoyed, putting all of the dance pieces together and working with these wonderful children from the Harney School of Dance in Walpole. It was just a great experience. And got to have a great run of all of these shows that we do. They do like 11 to 12 shows around Christmas time and it’s well attended and it’s just a fantastic experience. Jo Reed:  I read, and I find this really, really hard to believe, that you had four to five days to put this whole thing together? Kevin Doyle:  Well, that is most often the case I would say in all of the shows that I’ve been involved in. And I always refer to it as the "Christmas miracle," which Brian gets a kick out of that, but he knows what I’m saying, because we meet on a Monday morning and we meet in this wonderful rehearsal space and we meet with Seamus Egan of the band Solas, as the music director. And we meet all of these musicians from all over the world, very talented people. And we start choreographing the show on a Monday, maybe late Monday morning. And usually by Thursday, we’ve already got our costumes and we’re ready to do a run through, and we’re out there on Friday. And it’s just amazing how the process starts off very slow and everything comes together and it’s like, "I can’t believe it."  It’s like Wednesday morning you’re thinking,  "Is this ever going to happen?" But it happens. We bring in all of the dancers on Wednesday and we bring them back in Thursday morning and we choreograph all of the pieces into the music and the show goes off and it gets better with each show, but it gets done. It’s amazing. Jo Reed:  You know, it’s also really interesting because there are a lot of kids in the show and they’re probably used to the competition, so this must be so different for them just to be able to perform. Kevin Doyle:  Absolutely. That was something that was said to me when I first worked with them was, some of the parents said to me, “The hardest job you’re going to have with the children is to get them to smile because they’re so used to having judges sitting across from them at a table.” And it’s all about the competition with so many students that I had to just keep telling them that even though you can’t see the second and the third balcony in these theatres, it’s total darkness, you’re going to hear the applause and I want you to look up as you’re dancing off the stage and wave to the people up there because they really love what you do. They really love your folk art. They love your step dancing. And they really appreciate how much work you’ve put into it. So that was something, a unique experience for these children, that they really hadn’t had a taste of before. And, hopefully, I know they’ll never forget it. It’s an experience of a lifetime for any young dancer, to just feel the applause and the energy and the excitement that the audience gives right back to you. Jo Reed:  As you mentioned, you decided to retire early and devote yourself fulltime to dancing, which seems to be working out pretty well for you. Kevin Doyle:  Yes, I would highly recommend it. I was told by the woman at Social Security when I went down and sat with her and she said, “I sit here every day and I listen to people’s stories” and she said, “I’ve got to tell you, if the numbers work for you,” and they did because my wife Donna and I, we don’t really live extravagantly, but she said, “If there’s something you want to do that you have a passion for," she said, "Go for it.” She goes, “Because so many people wait too long." So she really encouraged me to say, "Go for it." And so I went for it and opportunities have knocked, and who knew I’d be going to Washington DC to get the NEA Fellow award. I’m just so amazed and it’s just a wonderful, wonderful feeling. I really think it’s going to be a while before it sinks into my head, you know? It’s just great. Jo Reed:  How did you find out? I’m assuming Barry Bergey called you. Kevin Doyle:  Yeah, that was pretty unique what happened with Barry Bergey. Barry Bergey called me one day when I was down in Point Judith, Rhode Island, South County, on the beautiful oceanfront down there with my 92-year-old dance teacher. And I looked at my phone and it said Washington DC.  I said, "Theresa I have to get this call." So I went outside and Barry was on the other end of the line and he said, “Hey, Kevin. How are you doing?” He goes, “How did you like your picture on that 2014 National Endowment Guide this year?” I said, "Oh my goodness," I said, "I’m so grateful that that happened." I said I'd gotten work out of it, a lot of emails, a lot of inquiries. And he said to me, he goes, “Well buddy," he goes, "This year you’re coming back to Washington but it’s all about you this year.” And I was dead silent on the other end of the phone. And he’s like “Hello. Hello.” I said, "Yes, I’m here, Barry." I said, "I just can’t believe what’s going on right now." I said, "I’m down in Point Judith with my 92-year-old dance teacher." I said, "It’s just her and I and I’m getting a phone call like this." And I went inside and I sat Theresa down. I said, "Theresa," I said, "Stay healthy," I said, "Please," I said, "You’re going to Washington in September." And I told her about the award and she started crying her eyes out and, of course, it was very emotional. Jo Reed:  What a moment that must have been. Kevin Doyle:  Yes, it was. Jo Reed:  Kevin, again, congratulations. I am looking forward to your performance in Washington. And this time, Séamus Connolly is accompanying you. Kevin Doyle:  Yes, Séamus is the first gentleman I called up to be part of my band to go down to Washington DC because he was so gracious to have me come down and have that experience last year. (Music up) I think we’re going to have a party in DC and looking very much forward to it. Jo Reed:  As am I. Kevin, congratulations, once again and I’ll see you soon. Thank you. Kevin Doyle:  Yeah, it’s coming right up. Yes, I’m excited. Thank you very much. Jo Reed: That is Irish Step Dancer and 2014 National Heritage Fellow Kevin Doyle. The National Heritage Fellowship Concert will be held at the Lisner Auditorium on September 19th at 8:00 p.m.  If you're in the DC area, come and join us. And even if you're not in DC, you can still join the celebration.  We're webcasting the concert live from the Lisner Auditorium. Just go to arts.gov for details.  You've been listening to Art Works produced at the National Endowment for the Arts.  Next week, dancer, and founder of Dance Place, Carla Perlo.  To find out how art works in communities across the country, keep checking the Art Works blog, or follow us @NEAARTS on Twitter. For the National Endowment for the Arts, I'm Josephine Reed. Thanks for listening. (Music Up) #### End of Kevin_Doyle_Interview_combined.mp3####